Uh oh, can of worms...
I wish we'd give the stimulus/tax changes a chance to see if it works before condemning it.
I always wonder why people say just move to Europe. It's not so easy to just move to Europe. You have to have a job there in order to stay.
I don't blame Obama for state taxes.
Federal taxes are going down for 95% of us, which I like.
I really believe in helping people who have less than me. Not everyone is afforded the same advantages in life (mentally, physically, emotionally, financially, racially, etc). Of course there are some bad apples in the bunch, but more people aren't out to scam. I know I'm a broken record about this, but I've worked with a lot of low income people.

*I didn't see the tea parties as a right-wing extremist thing at all, though.

OK I'm done.

It seems like it would be kinda hard to just up and move to Europe

Wave your flag however you want Coco!

I completely agree that Coco should wave whatever flag she wants!

Great! I love when people with differing opinions and ideals are buds.

I'm glad you had such a good time, Coco!

All I know is that a few weeks ago my paychecks went up a little bit because less taxes are being taken out. So that was awesome. And as someone who works freelance in a business that has to rely on CA's unemployment, I'd like to keep it running. The state tax increase sucks, but is necessary if it will keep things like that afloat. Especially with your husband about to lose his job, I'm sure you can appreciate how much of a help it will be until he finds a new one.

The good news is that the town is starting to pick up, so hopefully our state will turn itself around as well.

as much as it pains me to say this; w sucked as a president. he wasn't a leader people wanted to follow and he and his greedy cronies are largely responsible for what we are paying for now. obama has been president for 3 months. he's extended olive branches, and looks to me to leave everyone with their pride intact, even when he makes tough choices.

taxes are the only way to pay for the things everyone uses. personally i hold out hope for a flat tax, but i know that will probably never happen. i also think we need universal heath care and that needs to be paid for with TAXES!

there are a lot of things to be unhappy about right now in the world and in our country, but freedom of speech is alive and well and that is a positive thing. obama has gotten people involved in the issues and feeling like they can make a difference. people are dreaming about a better america again

Yeah immigrating to another country isn't all that easy. Been there, done that.

So I take it you have a job now, Coco? That's great!

I don't know about your own paycheck, but in mine I had less taxes taken out. So ditto what PK said.

So did my bf's!

You got a job? Wow congratulations!! What a wonderful way to help out with your current situation and take some of the responsibility and stress off of Matt. I bet he is really proud of you. He is lucky to have such a wonderful wife.

I have to agree that state taxes has nothing to do with Obama.
Taxes are necessary, to pay for things everyone uses, as Lickety said, whether they are state, or federal.
Personally, I try not to gripe about my taxes, which aren't low, because they help make my country better.
I hear Alska has no state tax, or income tax, and its closer than Europe.

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Timing Is Everything

I am glad you had a good time at the rally and it made you feel very patriotic.

Oh, man.

I read this thread first thing when I woke up and thought about it all morning as I was getting ready for work, in order to get my thoughts in place and figure out how to say what I want to say without being snide. And, actually, I've had this on my mind since I saw the avy you had earlier this week.

First of all, you've every right to your opinion and to post it wherever you like. And if almost any of my other friends on here posted this blog, I wouldn't have batted an eye.

But I have to say that I, personally, am a bit befuddled and somewhat offended by this blog. Not because you went to the protest. And not because I am a liberal and you are a conservative. But because I have been working and paying taxes since 1989, and you have never worked or paid taxes yourself (or have you? Admittedly I can't be sure. But I do know that you haven't worked since I've known you). You keep saying that you alone are entitled to what you have earned, but what have you earned? Again, I'm not trying to be snide. I just want to know the rationale behind that statement. If I'm mistaken and you ARE earning money, please let me know. Shout it from the rooftops, sister! It would make me feel so much better about everything.

As far as taxes go, the federal income tax I'm paying has gone down slightly. And I wouldn't mind if it hadn't. For the most part, the taxes I pay are helping people. And if it wasn't for people paying taxes, where would Matt be getting the unemployment compensation he's going to need in June?

So, again: I'm not posting this to start trouble or to get on your case. I just wanted to make it clear that I think this is a very odd message coming from someone who doesn't work.

At any rate, I'm glad that you went to the protest and spoke out for what you believe in.

FYI: Chicago has the highest state sales tax at 10.25.

Happiness is not,except in very rare cases,that drops into the mouth like a ripe fruit.Happiness must be,for most men and women,an achievement rather than a gift of the gods,and in this achievement,effort,both inward and outward,must play a great part.

Oh, also, it's VERY hard for an American to move to Europe. My poor sister could tell you horror stories about the battles she's had to fight to be able to stay over there for 6 years.

Thanks for going to the tea party nearest you! I had to work and couldn't go, but I'm also a Conservative and oppose the extended reach of the government these days. It's great that you posted this... lots of people are scared to voice their opinions when they're in disagreement with others!

I think that the philosophy behind the tea parties is flawed. It was spearheaded, organized and funded by Dick Armey and Fox News who are very rich so yes they will pay more taxes as he should. Most of the protesters will have a decrease in the taxes they pay this year. I also think having children hold signs about taxes is very wrong and I fundamentally disagree with it.

I have worked and paid taxes for the past fourteen years and that's just the way it is. I agree with Whip that it does seem strange that you don't pay taxes and you are so passionate about this issue. Taxes pay for things that we all use like parks, dog parks, roads, libraries, and mail I could go on and on. Are you against Medicare, Medicaid, health insurance for children, unemployment benefits? Those are socialist programs that function very well in this country. I think saying that if we are not happy with the way capitalism works we should move to Europe is very unfair. We have seen how well capitalism has worked in our own country over the past ten years. Capitalism has been greed driven and plunged our economy into the gutter.

I also would like to know what freedom and liberties you are referring to that need to be restored?

I too, am annoyed when people tell me I should just move to Europe. It is an inept argument. I love America & want it to be the best America it can be. Thats like saying if you don't like taxes you should move to Korea.

Just a note, not American but our taxes here are 13% and they were 15%. Not to mention our gas is four times the price as yours.

Taxes are necessary to pay for things like roads etc. Although it sucks to have so much taken from my paycheck, it has to be done.

One thing I do have a problem with is when capable people take advantage of things like the welfare and food stamps. You know, those people that could/should be working but don't because they can get everything for free? There are people out there who genuinely need help and that's fine with me, but the ones who abuse it really p*ss me off.

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“Fashion fades, only style remains the same.”

—Coco Chanel

I agree, Glam. I don't like it when people abuse that kind of stuff either.

Well said Glam!

Coco, I think you're coming from a good place in sharing this with us. I have to admit, however, that while I liked your avy the other day, I was also confused by it for the reasons listed in the comments above. I think it's great that you attended the Tea Party and that you're passionate about the issues that are important to you, but I can understand the girls' comments as well.

For me, the Tea Party was about creating a society of accountability, beginning with our government. I think if Americans could have access to the information that tells where our money goes, we'd all be a lot more fired up about what we pay in taxes. Does anyone here know of any websites where that information is easily acquired? Because, really, I want to know where the taxes go once they're taken.

I understand the need for us to take care of our fellow citizens, but my problem comes when government assistance becomes a way of life. I don't feel that we've done anyone any favors by making them dependent on the government. I recenly spent time at the battered women's shelter with a volunteer group I belong to, and I can tell you that my heart broke for those women and children. They feel so trapped and manipulated because they've been given a handout, but not a chance. The shelter is a nonprofit organization, but it does not receive government funding. This is the type of program that I'd have no problem paying taxes to fund.

I found a good chart here that gives a good breakdown of what percentage people pay in federal income taxes on their taxable income (keeping in mind that these are estimations):

If you make between:
$0 and $16,050 = 10%
$16,050 and $65,100 = 15%
$65,100 and $131,450 = 25%
$131,450 and $200,300 = 28%
$200,300 and $357,700 = 33%
$357,700 and above = 35%

I have an appointment waiting for me, so I have to wrap this up, but I just want to add that my hope is that we find clarity and stop being satisfied with a government who is never held responsible for its actions. I have a lot more I could add, but I have to leave it at that for now.

recovery.gov

RCL- I agree with everything you have said! :woot:

I agree that I don't want my tax dollars to fund welfare programs for people that don't truly deserve them. The welfare system needs to be reformed, not stopped. I know it must be difficult to weed out people that are using government services because they are simply lazy. But a lot of times, "laziness" is a symptom of a bigger problem, depression, mental illness, or just lack of knowing what resources are out there to help yourself. Many times, adults that may be abusing the system have children that really need the help.

I know I sound like an annoying broken record going back to my own experiences, but thats what I can offer. My mother was on food stamps. She abused the system. She used food stamps as currency to buy drugs, but as a kid, the food stamps were at least THERE in the house where I could take them & go buy food for my sister & younger brother. Yes, more than 1/2 of them my mom would use to buy drugs & that was wrong & her FAULT. Not mine, as a child, that needed food for survival. Literally for survival.

I've been thinking about this for a while... Number one- I think that it's great that you went to this and that you enjoyed it so much, and I’m glad you shared it with us. My thoughts are a bit jumbled so I am going to try my best not to be confusing:
1- I think it is unfair to assume that Obama, by continuing Bush’s policies, is not making any changes. He has been in office for 100 days, less than a third of his first year, and he was handed a big stinking pile of poo. He’s got a lot of things to fix, and things that have been so bad cannot be changed quickly, it’s going to take time. I would feel the same way no matter who was elected. I think patience is key before passing judgment on his ability to change things.
2- I agree on some level that government seems to be taking over everything lately, and it does bother me. HOWEVER- part of the reason we are in the giant mess we are in right now is because the government turned a blind eye to certain things for years (I’m generalizing). Right now I am supportive of them stepping in, cleaning up and setting new guidelines so that things like this cant happen again, as long as they step out again once things are smoothed out.
3- Taxes are a necessary evil. They pay for things we take advantage of every single day, and I would gladly pay more taxes if I could be guaranteed that it would be put towards education and better pay for educators. I get all pissy when I see that we’ve spent billions on things like unnecessary wars and what not, but such is life. I vote and that’s what I can do to make my voice heard. I guess that’s all I have to say about that.
Anywho- you are completely entitled to your opinion on things, and I find it interesting to hear a conservative point of view since everyone I know is very liberal. And well said RCL.

Well put RCL.

I agree Candy, I'd like to see the system reformed somehow so it'd be much more difficult for people to cheat the system but still be there for people who truly need it.

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“Fashion fades, only style remains the same.”

—Coco Chanel

Whip, RCL, Glam, SL, Candy- all very, very well put and respectable comments

I just wanted to clarify regarding CA's unemployment for my own sake- that system is devised with Hollywood in mind. Our town makes up and contributes so much of the state income and taxes and nearly everyone who works that business is a freelancer. While you mostly think of the producer and director types who make thousands and millions per film, the unemployment system is for those like me- crew members who work from show to show. I always carry a tiny little nestegg to help get me by and in case of emergency, but CA unemployment is so easy to pick up and drop and is just the right amount to carry you over in the weeks, or if the town is slow months, in between. When you look at my weekly rate, you might think that it's enough to get a person by when earned 52 weeks a year, but when you consider how many weeks out of the year I don't work, the unemployment is necessary. Plus, I pay taxes on it too, so it evens out

Its ok, PK! No judgement from me! I understand for you it is necessary & that you are a contributing member to society. I think unemployment benefits are a necessary benefit. People that are out of work NEED it to help them & I don't think it is abused as much as welfare.

I totally agree with whip and so many of you.

I'd like to add that I am mortified by our TX Gov's irresponsible comments about secession. I feel for many the "teabagging" focus has been lost and blown up into a negative bandwagon.

I agree Candy, unemployment benefits are necessary and people don't abuse it as much. I see no problem with that at all, Phase. You aren't milking the system, you have a job and work when the jobs are available, that's the nature of the industry that you're in.

My problem is with people like this one friend of mine. Her hubby does roofing/construction in the summer. He makes really good money but wastes it on things like $2,000 binoculars, getting another huge flat screen tv so he can lay in bed and play XBox 360 rather than sit on the couch, basically anything that's expensive that they really don't need. By the time winter comes and he can't work anymore, they are flat broke, selling their possessions on eBay for way less than they paid just so they can feed their kids. They take every government handout (welfare, foodstamps, WIC) they can get. Even though the hubby is perfectly capable of 1) saving enough money to live on for winter and/or 2) getting a temp job for winter to get by if he must spend every dime he makes during the summer.

Sorry for the rant.

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“Fashion fades, only style remains the same.”

—Coco Chanel

To follow up Kiwi comment, our federal breakdown for 2009 is:

15% on the first $38,832 of taxable income, +
22% on the next $38,832 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income between $38,832 and $77,664), +
26% on the next $48,600 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income between $77,664 and $126,264), +
29% of taxable income over $126,264

We are also taxed on income by the province:

6.05% on the first $36,848 of taxable income, +
9.15% on the next $36,850, +
11.16% on the amount over $73,698

Personally, I don't have an issue with the wealthier people paying a little more of the load, and I don't think I would care if I was making alot more money than I do now.

Oh, and on purchases, we can be charged a Goods and Services tax of 5%, or a Provincial Sales Tax of 8%.

But we get alot in return, as someone said, things we take for granted.
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Timing Is Everything

I think it's funny that you guys think because I'm young and not working I've never had a job. I worked all through high school. Sure it may not have been as long as ya'll but I know what it's like to earn my money. I'm thankful every day that I'm in a position where I don't have to work if I don't want to.

As for the Europe thing, if capitalism isn't working, the next step is socialism. This country would be no different than a European country. I guess I just don't understand the point of staying in America if it becomes like countries that already exist.

Wren, I don't blame Obama for the state tax. Part of last night was about the Governator and the way the state is run. I know that Obama inherited a lot of problems. I don't think by any means that Bush was a great president. It just seems to have reached a boiling point.

Oh so you didn't get a job to help out? My bad. I guess I just misunderstood

I'm babysitting but not an actual job.

I think you are confusing Capitalism with Democracy. Capitalism is an economic system and not a political system. Many other countries other than the US use capitalism as their dominant economic system, including, Canada and Mexico, ALL of the 27 countries of the European Union as well as many, many other countries such as Australia, Japan, India, Egypt, Tunisia, Indonesia, New Zealand, South Africa, Switzerland, Botswana, Brazil, Colombia, Chile, Peru, Russia, Turkey...Some of the European nations have been ruled by people that are in the Socialist Party, but all of these countries main economic system is Capitalism.

I understand your concerns about America losing sovereignty. That's a possibility that is very real, but I think a lot of people assume it could never happen. So I know where you're going with this, and I agree - we should be worried.

I don't think anyone was trying to put you on the defensive about the employment issue; since most of us are a little older, we naturally have a little more work experience under our belts, so people were just curious about what you earned that was being taken. Working in high school is different than working as an adult and making house/electrical/water/gas/loans/etc. payments because you probably didn't pay a lot of taxes on that income either (you might have even gotten almost all of it back in a refund), and you weren't paying rent or a mortgage. But I know what you're saying - you do have a work ethic and you do know what it's like to have responsibilities where people are counting on you.

I think the only thing people might wonder about is the statement that you're in a position that allows you the freedom not to work if you don't want to. You've shared with us some of the issues you've battled, so I've always championed the idea of you getting a part time job in the fashion industry just to help you feel empowered and inspired. But I worry that with Matt losing his job, now might be the time that you no longer have the option of not working. Not that that's a bad thing, but it does indicate a tiny bit of unrealism about this issue as a whole.

I just want you to be fulfilled and happy and to never have to worry about where the next Blythe money is going to come from! And, forgive me for being the big sister, but I know that having a job would do wonders in helping you find direction and satisfaction.

RCL, what a great comment. I couldn't have said it better myself!

Just now I sign in and catch the opportunity to read this blog. I have to say that I agree with many of what the girls have said.

I also want to add that it's obvious that America keeps functioning under a capitalist system, and the fact that government is needed alongside markets to allocate resources (like the protection of the poor through a social safety net, the provision of health care and education that society deems to be essential for all its members, etc.) doesn't equal socialism. In all these circumstances the free market system tends to underprovide these resources, and that's why government needs to step in. And being that America is a Democracy, it means that we ARE the Government, so WE are the ones paying for all these services, with our taxes.

On the other hand, I am glad that you are personally getting involved in these issues, because it is essential that you interact with all the variety of persons that were at this meeting. Because this will allow you to speak from knowledge and from first hand experience.

And on a side note, I wanted to mention that my sister in law, in Sarasota, has seen her mortgage monthly payment reduced since last month. So as you can see, the new Obama plan is starting to show positive results. He has only been President for 12 weeks, but we can see already the beginning of a much better social and economic future for America. It won't be easy, but we'll get there if we all work together for our country.

What a great thread!!

I do have a few things to add to the already awesome discussion...

I have a serious problem with the "us v. them" argument. To my mind, there is no us or them, only Americans. If part of the population is suffering (a large part, these days) it depresses the entire society. Everyone deserves food & a roof over their head.

I really don't think you understand what socialism is. I know that it has become this crazy, tossed around buzzword, but it really isn't some great evil. It is possible for a country to be socially conscience & remain a capitalist nation. I find it really really hard to believe that the US will EVER become a socialist nation.

Ok, thats all

I hope I haven't offended anyone & I really do love that we can have such a conversation!